From left: Nicol, Kong and emcee-moderator Freda Liu (All photos: The Edge Malaysia)
Options: We always talk about women’s empowerment, and we hear about it especially during International Women’s Day. What does it mean to you and how does that translate to women in their everyday lives from your perspective?
Datuk Nicol David: To me, empowerment for women would have to be giving them the opportunity to excel and encouraging them to see where their potential could lie. I was given the opportunity to play sports at a young age because my parents let me play squash at the public centre. I was able to pursue my dream to become a squash professional, and that gave me the pathway to break down barriers and be the best I can be. If you can give that chance to other women, give them support and show them they can be world-changers —that’s empowerment.
Cyrene Kong: Personally, it is about giving equal opportunities and rights, as well as being able to share in a safe environment, like how Datuk Bandar [Kuala Lumpur Datuk Seri Maimunah Mohd Sharif] mentioned physical safety earlier. But I think what’s more crucial is to provide psychological safety for women to grow.
Cyrene, financial help is very important for a woman due to the rising cost of living. What else can be done to improve financial literacy among women?
Kong: Financial health is very important, sometimes even more so than physical health. I say this because my mother was recently diagnosed with stage 4 lung cancer, and as you know, it’s a very expensive treatment. In the past, there was no consciousness of financial literacy, so [my parents] didn’t take any insurance. Now, it is down to their savings and my siblings to share the cost of the treatment. We currently have the technology available to spread awareness, but what also matters is the content that we get. Recently, we have seen a lot of TikToks and short-form content. It would be great if more people could generate content on financial literacy in simple language. Furthermore, with the current 89% penetration of smartphones in Malaysia and widespread access to the internet, digital inclusion for financial services is vital.
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You also have RHB’s Women in Leadership League initiative, where you actively mentor and nurture emerging talent. How do you spot them, and what mentoring do you provide?
Kong: I sometimes identify my younger self in others. When I see them put in a lot of effort but struggle, rather than actively asking to coach them, I take it day by day with personal conversations. Sharing stories is so important because then you feel like you’re not alone, you’re not the only one with young kids at home who needs to then come to work and deliver. In the IT line, I used to work almost 24 hours [daily], and I carried a lot of mother’s guilt. But sharing that, and ways in which you can let go, helped.
Datuk Nicol, the Nicol David Organisation was founded by yourself and Mariana de Reyes, with the mission of empowering women, girls and boys through sport, education, mental health and community advancement with two programmes, the Little Legends for children and Ibu Legends for mothers. Can you tell us more about this?
Nicol: When I was about to retire, I felt that whatever squash had given me, I had to give back in some way. I’ve long dreamed of a positive future for the next generation of Malaysians, which is how our flagship programme came about. Little Legends is an afterschool programme for children from low- to middle-income families comprising squash training and English classes, and we have 130 children currently in three cohorts. We only launched it three years ago but it’s really showing so much progress — we get to see the kids go from being timid and shy to gaining confidence, learning the values of sport and having an identity.
The second part, Ibu Legends, is for the mums of the children — they’re always bringing their kids to the programmes, always stressed and worried, and we all were compelled to support them in some way. We give them free medical check-ups, workshops and physical education. Once they can look after themselves, we go to the next phase of financial literacy, because if they don’t trust themselves, how can they take on something else? We are now on our second cohort of mums, and it’s amazing how they’ve gained the belief that they can handle money and be strong decision-makers for the household. Hopefully, we can bring in entrepreneurial skills for those who want to continue by developing their own small businesses.
What lessons from the world of sports do you think women in leadership can apply to their careers?
Nicol: The biggest skill is being resilient and hardworking. Sport is practical learning — you apply everything straightaway. To be honest, I never really thought I could run my own foundation. But having a great co-founder in [de Reyes] who knows the business side and what it’s like to be in the corporate world, helped me translate what I knew and bring it forward to build this organisation from scratch. What I’ve learnt as an athlete, pushing barriers and trying to be the best in the world [is that], being a female in any position, resilience can take you very far. When women play sports or exercise, they get better and stronger, both mentally and physically.
What systemic barriers do you think still hold women back, and how can we dismantle them?
Kong: There are two prongs. One is societal, because after all, we are Asians [and] still very patriarchal. As for how we can break this down, I feel events like this [forum] are helpful for raising awareness. IWD is not only for women, it is also for men to understand how different it is for us. Once they understand, they can empathise and together we can progress. The second prong is our internal barriers — questioning whether or not we are enough, handling self-talk.
Nicol: When it comes to the sports industry, it’s mostly about positions of power in associations or organisations. Some 95% of them are run by men, but the 5% is getting stronger due to the new appointment of the first female president of the International Olympic Committee. Hopefully, having a woman leading such a prominent sports agenda can be a turning point. In the corporate and government realms, we have a quota for female representation. But sports doesn’t have it just yet, so we need to push that forward too.
Cyrene, there are not many women in tech or who hold positions as high as you. What was it like moving up the career ladder in a male-dominated field?
Kong: It’s interesting how it’s still very male-dominated because the first programmer was a woman, Ada Lovelace. Over time, I think the momentum shifted to thinking men are better from a mathematical and logical standpoint. But more and more women are picking up STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics), and I’m heartened to see we have had many technology companies helmed by women in Malaysia. In fact, there are several banks with female technology officers, and four of our digital banks have women CEOs. As a country, we are progressing insofar as we don’t stop women from taking science and technology, and there are equal opportunities as long as we put hard work into it.
What advice would you give to your younger selves today if you had the chance?
Kong: I would tell my younger self that I am enough. I brought up self-talk just now, but if I had known about it earlier, maybe I would have progressed a bit further and been able to achieve more. Don’t sweat the small stuff.
Nicol: I had the same problem too. I know it sounds weird coming from me, but it’s true. We all have our own insecurities, especially women. We have to change the narrative in our heads — that a successful person has to be perfect in all parts of their life — and not get sucked into it. I find myself thinking, ‘If I’m a world champion at squash, I have to be as good at everything else’. I put so much pressure on myself. For women of all ranks, if you’re at the top, you’re there for a reason. You worked for it. Give yourself that credit.
This article first appeared on Apr 7, 2025 in The Edge Malaysia.
